Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hi there, and welcome to today's proper golfing podcast with myself, Joe Cameron.
Speaker 1 00:00:05 I'm Julie Muller.
Speaker 0 00:00:06 Yeah, thank you for joining us. So today is episode seven in our podcast, brought to you from our transformation vault. So that is where we record everybody's lesson and everybody's outcomes from their sessions here. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:00:19 That's
Speaker 0 00:00:19 Fantastic with Julia. So real people, real data, real resource. So today is about Derek and lag
Speaker 1 00:00:26 A subject close to my heart, Joe.
Speaker 0 00:00:27 Yeah. Oh no, you're gonna really enjoy this one, aren't you? But I,
Speaker 1 00:00:29 I'm gonna enjoy this. Yeah. So
Speaker 0 00:00:31 If you're a person who doesn't understand completely what lag is, you are gonna explain in a minute, aren't you? I am. Basically, Derek was one out of 10 with his iron confidence.
Speaker 1 00:00:40 One
Speaker 0 00:00:40 Out of 10 confidence was his iron play and, and he was following the myth of trying to create lag. Holding
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Lag. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:00:48 Absolutely. Right. Okay. So tell us about that
Speaker 1 00:00:49 Then. So I've got my big club here,
Speaker 0 00:00:52 So,
Speaker 1 00:00:52 So if you
Speaker 0 00:00:53 Are just listening by the way, you can see us on Spotify.
Speaker 1 00:00:56 So I've got a very short golf vere just for, for camera sake. Like is the angle between the shaft and your lead arm. Right. So the, the leg really means the bigger the angle or the greater the angle the better. But this is caused so many problems for golfers, something I've worked on in the past. Yeah. Thank God I don't do that anymore. But I want to explain as we go on why it's so bad to, to do that on purpose.
Speaker 0 00:01:25 What, so, but why has it became popular then? So we're talking about lag as a myth, but why, so why has it become popular?
Speaker 1 00:01:31 It was, it's been popular for many years, Joe, but it's, the idea is to hit it at the ball further.
Speaker 0 00:01:37 Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:01:38 You know, which can work for certain golfers and you know, you could go on YouTube and you could, you could do some exploring to see which golfers do it. They tend to be elite golfers. Okay. Who have hours and hours and hours to practice. Not just the lag, but also the release of the lag. And that's the bit that gets missed out. They don't talk about the release of it, they just talk about holding it. And that's where we create all the problems.
Speaker 0 00:02:06 So basically if you're trying to create lag, you're tightening up, aren't you? You're still
Speaker 1 00:02:10 Tied, you're a hundred percent tighten up. Yeah. But, but it also has a huge effect on presenting the club face back to the ball. In many cases, golfers start shanking the golf ball, which is the, the worst words you can hear on a golf course. If you start shanking, it shoots off to the right. Yeah. Very rare do people square the face up efficiently through impact. And most often they'll add a little bit more loft to the club face and it'll actually go high and Right. And it causes so many problems.
Speaker 0 00:02:43 I think I can remember myself keep going. Right, right, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:02:47 Into
Speaker 0 00:02:48 The trees, into the bushes, into the rough, right, right, right. Yeah. Okay. So basically his, his club speed was down at 54.
Speaker 1 00:02:58 Yeah. He was sitting at about what, one 20? Something like that. Yeah. And I asked how come he is been working on like, guess what? What? YouTube. YouTube.
Speaker 0 00:03:08 Ah, I knew it. We said it both at the same time, didn't we? YouTube,
Speaker 1 00:03:11 YouTube,
Speaker 0 00:03:12 I mean, let's not, let's not criticize YouTube too much. We were on there and occasionally we put back on it again. But I think what it just does, as we know, lots of people come from here, just get confused because you're trying to apply tips and hints and techniques to yourself, and they might not work for you. So then you just end up in a complete confusion instead
Speaker 1 00:03:29 Of confusing. Yeah, absolutely. I I, I was listening to a short Instagram post from Padre Carrington, who's, I think his nickname's Paddy, but he says so many things that are really sensible for the average golfer. So not an elite golfer. One thing that he said that all golfers should be working on is release, not like release that club because if you can't hit the ball 300 yards with the modern technique, you need to start to release that club face more efficiently to gain speed, to gain a better club face impact to gain yardage. Yeah. Stop going. Right. And it will stop going. Right? Yeah. If I can just share with you again, from our, from our vault, we've looked at what is the one differential between low handicappers and high handicappers? And it's very simple, Joe. It's club face control, right? Okay. Yeah. Lower handicappers have a much better understanding of club face control, where it's pointing when they're hitting it. Now in our sim here, we can measure side spin and club face angle and the, if you are, if you are using sim data, look at the side spin number and ideally you want that side spin under 500. Okay. So the lower the number the better. But if it goes into the thousands, the first thing you need to think about is club face. Okay. Where it's going, not swing path,
Speaker 0 00:04:52 Which way it's facing basically
Speaker 1 00:04:53 Where it's pointing. Yeah. Clubface is your steering wheel, you know, you're pointing in the right direction. It is got a good chance of going there. So, so that size spin number's really important that people don't, don't understand.
Speaker 0 00:05:03 And Derek was up 8, 4, 5 8, 4 5.
Speaker 1 00:05:06 Yeah. It's not uncommon to see it in the thousands, you know, we see that all the time. Yeah. And
Speaker 0 00:05:10 The side spin does what for
Speaker 1 00:05:11 Everybody? So it, it spins the ball offline basically. Another name for, it's called axis tilt. So if you are flying an airplane, if you're flying the wings low and you tilt the wings, it, it's, it goes in a different direction. So the more side spin you've got on it, the more offline the golf ball goes. But really everybody thinks about the path of the swing, but actually Clubface is more important to fix than, than club path. Yes. Path is important. We, we know that, but clubface is really important. And then lag is creating the biggest problem in golf. Because if you don't, if you create the lag, but then don't release the lag, your clubface comes in wide open and quite common as well to top the ball.
Speaker 0 00:05:55 Do you know what I'm, what I'm really, really, really proud about of ourselves is this is actual stories from actual people because we record everything that goes on in our indoor golf venue here in Royal Ton Spa. So it's actual facts. It's not just guesswork is it, or conjecture. It's actual facts. So yeah, he wasn't weak or he wasn't incapable, he was just tight. I think what the interesting thing is that you described there is an interesting balance between being relaxed and controlling the club face. Yeah, definitely. You know, because if you get too head up on controlling the club face, you can maybe get a bit,
Speaker 1 00:06:28 You can get worse and you tighten up again. Overthink.
Speaker 0 00:06:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:32 But also if it's too tight, you'll slow the club down your muscles basically. They shorten and they tighten and they go slower. Right. So relaxed muscles move much faster and they're much more efficient.
Speaker 0 00:06:42 So you've got relax and control of
Speaker 1 00:06:44 Your face at the same time. Yeah, because the interesting thing that happened, Joe, once we got him to release the club face correctly, is club speed went up, I think between five and eight miles per hour. And his and his yard has jumped up to over 135 in, in no time at all. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And, and he says, well, how come I'm hitting it further through not lagging. Yeah. I says, because now you've increased clubhead speed Yeah. And your club face is coming back square. So it it, yes, it can work for certain types of golfers. Yeah. Okay. But I would say 98% of people shouldn't be trying to lag it. It actually happens quite naturally if you're moving really well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A
Speaker 0 00:07:21 Hundred percent. Do you know what I really, well, I'm chuckling to myself is about when you said the average golfer, now nobody wants to be called average, do they? No, they don't. Nobody wants to call average. So we're not saying you are average, we are just saying the person that plays golf socially or recreationally, this is what works for people that play socially and recreationally. And they're we're average,
Speaker 1 00:07:41 You know, and competitive, but not elite. You know, the guys that you've seen on the telly, they're elite, elite golfers, you know, they, they have the best of everything and, and they have the time, the dedication to put into getting these things. Right. It's not uncommon, Joe, when when we show somebody something that they'll try it 3, 4, 5 times, oh, that doesn't work. And then they dismiss it. Yeah. A pro golfer won't stop 'em until he's got it. Right. Yeah. And that could be months, absolute months. So there's a different mentality 'cause they're doing it for a living and we are doing it for enjoyment. Yeah. So, and there's always an easier way than, than creating lag. Oh my god. I've seen so many people struggle, especially when they, when on little pitch shots, hitting that ball off to offline. Oh yeah. Really
Speaker 0 00:08:28 Trouble. I when you watch the tournament on tv, I mean, I just, I just feel pain every time I watch them, you know, because if we're trying to ever be like them, it is just gonna be lower back knees, you know? But like you say, they're in the ice bath, aren't they? In the physio or whatever. They
Speaker 1 00:08:42 Don't talk about the recovery, do they every
Speaker 0 00:08:44 Day? No, but they don't, but they absolutely will be doing that 100%, wouldn't they? They have to. I know a hundred percent and they're doing the exercises every day. So they've got, yeah. You know, some, but with Derek, like you say, when you're tight, you can see it in your forearms, you know? So
Speaker 1 00:08:58 You, I, I'll tell you the other fa there's two places that really stand out to me. In fact, there's three, when people have got a short sleeve shirt on, on the left arm, if they're right in the golfer, there's a little muscle here that pops out as soon as it's tight, I see that muscle. Okay. But the next place you see it is the shoulders. And I often see it in the jaw, people really gripping on with their teeth and we just know that they're, they're really tense. So, you know, helping them get outta that state, it's, it's a wonderful, it's almost like they sort become lubricated and their swings can move. I know, but
Speaker 0 00:09:31 They absolutely do. We see it all the time. And if you asked us how many people, I'm the guy I was listening to the guy here the other day, and he found, he found us on YouTube, you know, so people do find us on YouTube. The difference that we wanted to make for you on YouTube is that we wanted to put it all together into a methodology. Yeah. So that's the big difference why people come to us at proper golfing is it's all put together in a methodology. Remind us what the three disciplines, no disciplines remind us what the
Speaker 1 00:09:59 Three Yeah, we were calling them principles, but actually they are a discipline because if you do apply 'em really well, you will make some fantastic golf swing. So the first is a free flowing golf swing. Okay. But that starts in the mind. Yeah, yeah. But also in, in the body. So any, if, if you can be free flowing, generally you're gonna make some nice golf swings, coordinated movement through impact. You know, if you are matching up body, arms and club through impact, you're gonna hit a lot of shots towards target with efficiency. And it's probably gonna go your maximum distance. Yeah. And what we call our signature six second finish, holding your finish for six seconds until that golf ball lands. There's so many positives that come out of being able to do that. You know, we, we spoke about this before, so I'm not gonna go in about again, but if you can't hold your finish, if you pay no attention to your finish, you will be missing out massively, I promise you.
Speaker 0 00:10:52 And there's next to 0% of people that ever think about their finish. Are they? And we know the percentages.
Speaker 1 00:10:58 Well, PE people say it's important and they'll say, yeah, it's an eight or a nine out 10. Then I'll say, well, what hap how much attention do you pay to it on the golf course? Oh, I don't. No, I don't. So it's a zero for most people. They don't pay any attention to the finish. And yet we know it's so important and the evidence that we've got to prove it is insane. I love
Speaker 0 00:11:17 It. I love the evidence. We can't, nobody can challenge us on the evidence. Never. I just wanna go back to the thing that you said about, you know, when you try something and you stop. Yeah. And I'm having a, just a little personal story, which, you know, I'm just trying, I've had some problem with my shoulder, so I'm literally just trying, no, I'm not trying, I'm doing drinking a cup of tea with the other hand. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:11:39 It's just a little mind little thing to have a play around with. How long does it take you to just automatically drink with the other hands? You know? So if you're right, and I'm not suggesting you do it, I'm just using it as an example about how hard it is to change, because I've been drinking with my right hand for like 50 years and now I'm trying to drink a cup of tea, which is actually a lot better now, isn't it? Just that movement is so much better. But how much time and commitment and energy does it take to change from one to the other? And that's just a little tiny thing. So when it comes to golf, you're absolutely right. People go, oh yeah, I can change overnight. It does take some focus and energy focus
Speaker 1 00:12:16 Mind
Speaker 0 00:12:16 Is good. Good. Yeah. Mind. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna use hard work. I'm just saying focus and concentration on a different change of movement, isn't it?
Speaker 1 00:12:23 I would say we don't change golf swings, we change habits a hundred
Speaker 0 00:12:26 Percent.
Speaker 1 00:12:27 You know, because the, the habit that you have normally with your golf swing is your habit. And this is why you go for a lesson, you make a change, you go on the golf course, it doesn't work, and you go back to old habit because it feels familiar. And you can trust old habit, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, you'll trust it. So our job is to go, well, this is the habit that we're seeing and let's show you how to change the habit so that you can trust it when you're on the golf course. And, and you need to do this with somebody because if you are just practicing without feedback, if you, if you don't video your swing, if you don't have access to information, all you'll do is just go back to old habit and you'll hit lots of golf balls thinking you're getting better. You won't get better. I promise you, you'll just get good at hitting lots of golf balls. Yeah. But do do it really well. And
Speaker 0 00:13:16 Sometimes you, you know, habits, there's a guy, if you wanna read about habits, the, the, the main guru on habits is a bloke called Doig. He's written extensively on habits, but it's the thing that goes before the habit that if you change that, that can change a habit a bit. Like, you know, if you don't wanna get off your phone and every time you sit down, you get off your phone. If you stop sitting down, you won't get on your phone. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? I'm just thinking about another way the, again, with me, I was just trying to do the left and right hand swapping the knife of fork over. I still haven't mastered that. I was just thinking of failing every day. Failing every day.
Speaker 1 00:13:48 Yeah. But you are mindful of it.
Speaker 0 00:13:50 I know. Yeah. I just realized I wanted to change that habit just to experiment. Yeah. And how, how hard it is. I've gotta remember again, to go back to, because it's hard. Yeah. It's too
Speaker 1 00:13:57 Hard. Yeah. When,
Speaker 0 00:13:58 But it's not to say give it up. You're absolutely right. You know, a habit just feels, it's a habit. So it just becomes subconscious, isn't it? Yeah. What
Speaker 1 00:14:06 One, one of the hard, hardest habits I find golfers tend to, to struggle on is setting up. Yeah. Right. Because their habit is they put the club behind the board, they put the feet in, they think they're in a good place. Yeah. Yeah. And to take them through a different thing and they'll do it maybe while they're here. And I said, you've been focusing on, oh no, I forgot about that bit. We, we put a series of videos out recently taking people from the grip, the setup, and through the golf swing. The play it seven series. Yeah. Okay. Which video in that seven series, he's got the least views Set. Set,
Speaker 0 00:14:42 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:14:43 Every time it's set up, you cannot build a good swing on a poor set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't do it.
Speaker 0 00:14:49 So the videos
Speaker 1 00:14:50 Concentrate on you sett it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's had so, so few views and yet it's one of the most important parts of that seven parts series is okay,
Speaker 0 00:14:57 So if you wanna change a setup, you have to do something before it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's the trigger to change a habit. So it could be anything. You just go, right. New setup and then you do your new setup and you have to go new setup and you do your new setup and you have to keep doing that. You do until you change your setup or whatever it, I'm just saying, a new setup is one thing, isn't it? Or like, you put a bit of grass on the floor loads of different ways, but you've gotta, you've gotta have a different trigger. Yeah, definitely. To a place
Speaker 1 00:15:21 That habit. Yeah. And, and, and again, you know, it does come back to lag. Yeah. Cause that, that, you know, people will ignore the setup. So even if you setup's poor and you try to lag it, you'll still struggle. Mm. So, but please don't try lagging the golf club. Whatever you
Speaker 0 00:15:36 Do. Right. So what's everybody gonna do then? So, so, well firstly, if you go on our website a proper do Proper dolphin. Proper
Speaker 1 00:15:41 Dolphin, that's a different one. Have you on
Speaker 0 00:15:43 Website, don't get a fit of the giggles in a live podcast. It's not a good thing. If you go onto our website@propergolfing.com, there's always something for you to do. There will be like a free download at the moment. You can get a, a completely free 30 day plan, which you tell us a bit about your golf, where you're at at the moment, and then we can draft you a 30 day plan. And if you want to access the videos, then you just pay 10 pound a month and you can leave at any time. Why wouldn't you do that? No grade, you know, I've just been on loads of Facebook groups on, you know, people golf asking about hints and tips and stuff like that. All you need to do is go on proper golfing.com, answer some questions about your golf, and we will send you a free 30 day plan based on evidence, facts, your swing and our data. No brainer. Proper golfing.com. So what have people gotta do about this lag?
Speaker 1 00:16:35 Be aware of it. First off,
Speaker 0 00:16:37 Number one, be aware and,
Speaker 1 00:16:38 And stop looking at videos on lag. Sounds so simple, doesn't it? You,
Speaker 0 00:16:43 You do that on, you can
Speaker 1 00:16:44 Do that. Like honestly, if you, if you can start to release that club face efficiently face, you'll, you'll gain distance, you'll gain better club face control, you'll reduce the size spin and you'll hit the golf ball further. Yeah. Please don't work. There
Speaker 0 00:16:57 Isn't any videos on our channel talk about like,
Speaker 1 00:16:59 No. Well, there is auntie.
Speaker 0 00:17:02 Oh, the real, you never know. Like we've been on YouTube a while, you know, so if you do find one that we are on lag that we haven't, that we don't know about, please let us
Speaker 1 00:17:09 Know. We'll, thank you. Somebody's huge ai.
Speaker 0 00:17:12 Somebody's made, somebody's made you into a bot. Anyway, so Derek, what happened then? He went away with
Speaker 1 00:17:17 Six outta 10 confidence. Yeah. Yeah. And building in a positive, I mean, to, to change the confidence by five in one session is insane. More importantly, Joe, he's just really enjoying his golf. Again now instead of struggling
Speaker 0 00:17:30 And injury free. Sorry, I was just looking at what was coming up. What did, so people have gotta be, be aware of lag. Yeah. Ditch watching YouTubes on,
Speaker 1 00:17:40 On lag. Definitely don't, don't watch YouTube has lag. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:45 Anything else or not is that
Speaker 1 00:17:46 For today, structure is really important. When you, when you're trying to change something, structure's really important. We are very, very skilled at structure and doing things in the right order that gets you the best outcome. Yeah. So if you are quite serious about your golf and you do want to get better or you want to have more fun with your friends and you want to, to prove to yourself what you're capable of, seriously, we can help you in such a positive way. Yeah. And it's inspiring and you really enjoy it. That's the big thing.
Speaker 0 00:18:18 Yeah. Inspiring time and time and time again. We've had loads of people in last week, Derek and everybody else that comes in with a complete light bulb moments. So you can, you don't even have to need to come to see us physically at Ton Spa. Yeah, we do
Speaker 1 00:18:30 It all
Speaker 0 00:18:30 Online. We've got plenty of clients in America and around the world that, you know, dial in on Zoom and Yeah. And if you are, you know, in a sim anywhere in the world, send us your figures and we'll tell you what to do next.
Speaker 1 00:18:44 We can. Yeah. It's insane what we are able to do.
Speaker 0 00:18:47 Take your numbers and we'll tell you where to go next with our plan. But anyway, we hope you've enjoyed today. This is all about inspiring you with your golf and making it easier and more enjoyable. I'm Joe Cameron.
Speaker 1 00:18:57 I'm Julian Maller.
Speaker 0 00:18:58 Yeah. And we're both from proper golfing, so we hope to see you again soon. Take care.
Speaker 1 00:19:02 Bye. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye.
